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182 entries.
Lynn Lynn from United States wrote on September 20, 2008:
About 20 years ago I was reeling on my face before the Lord because what I was reading in scripture was not corresponding to what many great Bible teachers were saying. I was wrestling with the notion that I was understanding things completely different. This either meant I was so totally off base with my understanding of scripture or so many of the great teachers I had studied were wrong.

With much humility, I continued to look beyond the accepted pre-trib teachings. I had already determined the mid and post views were incorrect, but the confusion of the pre-trib explanation was such an exercise in mental gymnastics it was taking a long time to digest what they were trying to say. It was tearing me up. (Lord, how can anything you want me to know be so totally confusing?)

While questioning the doctrine of Imminence, I came upon Marvin Rosenthal's writings from 1990. Since I so agreed with him on that, I searched deeper and found his writings on the Pre-Wrath view. Instantly, the mental gymnastics ceased and I knew he was on to something. I have studied and tested this view to my complete satisfaction.

I just found your website yesterday and read your entire study. It is by far the most clear and concise study I've read. You have organized the Pre-Wrath view and presented it so wonderfully. Armed with your lessons, I now feel I can go out into the field and present it to those that need to hear.

Well done, and may God bless.
James & Ann Dritt James & Ann Dritt from United States wrote on September 6, 2008:
As a young earth Creationist along with a Pre-Wrath rapture; the whole Bible makes sense, from beginning to end.
That is the Word our Lord gave us, to read and understand. It's not rocket science.
Thanks for your website.
James Dritt, Ph.D.
Lee Shelton, III Lee Shelton, III from United States wrote on August 24, 2008:
Read your site. Sad to say, same old Dispensational nonsense. For the best understanding of end times, read Hal Brunson's book Who is Israel? What is a Jew? Where is Jerusalem?

When these 3 questions are answered in the light of the New Testament it becomes clear that the Pre-Millennial position will never hold water.

I grew up with the Scofield bible. I thank the Lord daily that He delivered me from such non-biblical thinking. The testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy. (Rev 19:10) All Old Testament promises find their fulfillment in Jesus Christ.(2 Corinthians 1:20) He is the seed of Abraham and all who follow Him in faith are sons of Abraham and heirs according to the promises. (Gal 3:15-29)
Douglas Funk Douglas Funk from United States wrote on August 11, 2008:
Studied and believed by reading the writings of Mr Van Kampen and Marv Rosenthal at Zion's Fire. Thanks for this great site.
Soldier of Faith Soldier of Faith from United States wrote on June 14, 2008:
I am very pleased to find that the Holy Spirit is sharing with others the truth about the end times. Recently the Holy Spirit has been pouring out Wisdom and Understanding about the End Times. I have to say I about JUMPED OUT OF MY SEAT when I read your FAQ about how the prophecies are tied together. The Lord showed me that the sun, moon, and "falling stars" are the Key and Revelation is the Key hole. But there is so much more! Hang on people; it is going to be an interesting ride!

God Bless This Site, and its creators.
Matthew Marlow
Pete Pete from United States wrote on May 15, 2008:
Thanks for a terrific explanation and defense of the Biblically sound Pre-Wrath position. I'll be using this page as one of several to present this position on our website.

A note as regards 'the last Trump.' I have long pondered how that integrates with Scripture and have a theory... The Jewish feasts seem to be a picture of Christ. We see a fulfillment of Passover with His sacrifice, Resurrection on First Fruits (if I remember correctly) and the Holy Spirit being given at Pentecost.

I think it safe to assume God will continue to act in this manner... One of the late Summer feasts of the Jews is Rosh Hashana, the Feast of Trumpets. At the beginning of the feast day a trumpet , or shofar, is blown.... The day has two main events: Excitement over the new year and sorrow in reflection over judgment...

It is possible, just possible, that Christ's return fulfills that day and in so doing, it will be 'the last trump.' It will be a day of excitement at the New Eternal Life we have before us, and a day of judgment for those who are left... Incidentally, the day and hour of the holiday is never known until two witnesses declare the beginning of the day...

No date setting... but something to consider.

May the grace of God be on you and yours,

Pete
Cary Cary from Canada wrote on April 29, 2008:
In my own study, I have been troubled by some of the problems presented by the pre-tribulation rapture of the church (a theory which I have been taught and held my entire life). This study has led me to believe that the pre-wrath theory is the only one that works. Your well-documented and illustrated website has greatly encouraged me in my study.

I have a couple of concerns/questions:

1. I didn't notice any mention of the fact that Paul clearly states that the rapture will take place at the last trumpet (1 Cor 15:52). Why is this not mentioned?

2. You go into detail about the 7 seals and that the 6th seal is "the sign". However, as you so brilliantly illustrated, the seals are just the "latches" of the scroll. The scroll is where the action is. The seals seem to me to be glimpses of what is recorded inside the scroll. The seals do not have time attachments and could actually take place during the second half of the 7 years.

3. Finally, Ezekiel 34:25 and 1 Thess 5:3 indicate that there will be a pronounced period of peace. I cannot find a better place for this peace than in the first 3.5 years after Israel signs a covenant with Antichrist. If the first 3.5 years are peaceful, it would make a lot of sense.

Keep up the good work.
Chris and Colleen Chris and Colleen from Canada wrote on April 19, 2008:
Hello from Vancouver,B.C by way of Pasadena,Ca.,South Africa and Georgetown,Ma!

Pastor E, you have effectively and concisely given an incredible presentation of the prewrath position, and sharing this website with my wife and sister has been a huge blessing for us all!
I am greatly thankful for your attention to detail, and also the fact that you will not set dates or come across as saying thus saith the Lord!
I have been richly blessed for the past two hours as I have read and studied your website, and hope to have the privledge and honor of telling you thanks in person someday!!
Till then, May the Lord bless and keep you, may the Lord make His face to shine on you, and be gracious to you!! May the Lord lift up His countenance to you and continue to give you peace!!
From our 8-0 to yours!
Chris and Coll
Jeremiah 9 23 and 24
vic vic from Philippines wrote on March 20, 2008:
I agree with your view.
Ray Courchaine Ray Courchaine from United States wrote on February 28, 2008:
Great study. I have several pastor brothers who are pre-trib. After I received Jesus into my heart I read the Bible from cover to cover before I stepped into a church. I have always weighed what was taught with what the Bible says. They have never been able to explain I Cor 15:51 and the "mystery" when the trumpet sounds, compared to Revelation 10:5-7 when the "mystery is revealed" at the last trumpet.
I believe these are one in the same.
hydra555 hydra555 from United States wrote on November 14, 2007:
I agree with the pre-wrath view except that the rider on the white horse is NOT the real person of the Antichrist but the spirit of Antichrist. All of the riders on the horses are powers to make things happen. None of them are a person. The real person of the Antichrist doesn't come until later; after the rapture which IS THE SIXTH SEAL!!!! Read the sixth seal and when you read where the people are cying out that the wrath of lamb has come they must be seeing Jesus rapture His church!!!!
Paul James Paul James from Canada wrote on October 5, 2007:
Very well researched site. I haven't had time to go through it all, but so far it is very thought provoking. Until recently I was a pre-tribulation rapture person. However, the apathy that most Christians have given current world events, partially because of this pre-trib thinking has bothered me. Too many think we have nothing to worry about. We are out of here! I think they better think again. After going back over scripture I now believe that we could definitely face the tribulation, or at least part of it.
I would also like to say that I hope more Christians will do some web research into the One World Order and New World Order. See what is happening, put the dots together and be warned. We should all start fasting, repenting,sharing Christ with more people if possible,and studying and memorizing Gods word as much as possible. Because our faith is soon to be severely tested. Lets not be complacent. Lets be sure we can stand the test and come out as God wants us to be.
Albert Klasky Albert Klasky from United States wrote on October 4, 2007:
Great job on your study.I've been a prewrather many years now since being handed Rosenthals book. Have attempted to write my own study as you have. You have done a great job of laying out the defense. The key question is will the church be asleep at the wheel at our Saviors return? Luke 21:34 "Be careful, or your hearts will be weighed down with dissipation, drunkenness and the anxieties of life, and that day will close on you unexpectedly like a trap." I pray we wake up before the heat of the last hour lulls us into that trap.
Steven Steven from United States wrote on July 30, 2007:
The pre-tribulational rapture position is entirely indefenseable. 2 Thess 2 proves it to be. Paul's very mention of the apostacy occuring, and the man of sin being revealed who will sit in the temple of God would make no sense if we were not going to even see either occurance come to fruition. Matt 24:22 states the days of the great tribulation will be shortened for the "elects" sake. The elect are both Jew and Gentile who comprise the Church during this age. It is not Jews only. Jesus compares the day that Noah entered the ark to the day of his coming. The day he raptures the church, that same day will come divine judgement on the entire world. The pre-wrath position makes the most sense of any position I've studied thus far. Some will say but it's a new position! Perhaps, but the end times beliefs of the early Church were not highly developed in the first place. It could just be that this position is what Paul taught the Thessalonian believers, or at least very very close.
Eric Eric from United States wrote on June 28, 2007:
I was taught the pretribulational position, however, I have sometimes doubted if this could be the case. 2 Thessalonians 2:3 seems to squash that position because the pretribulational view says we won't know who he is and this passage says we will see him. Therefore, you're position at least needs the careful examination of anyone who has an open mind.
Allan Allan from Australia wrote on June 10, 2007:
Great explanation of the end times. Have had so many questions in the last couple of years regarding the Rapture. Being brought up Brethern and believing we would all be raptured at any time?? caused a lot of uncertainity in my life. Our youth leader in the early 80's was predicting the Rapture at any moment. The more I read the Bible, the more questions I had. Through my own study and reading I believe your explanation to be right. Nowhere does it say we were exempt from suffering, only from the Wrath of God. We are not "in Darkness" but "in the Light". Wonderful, easy to understand layout. Well done.
John Fulda John Fulda from United States wrote on June 2, 2007:
54 years ago in a seminary class studying the minor prophets under a gifted and respected professor, the conception of "The Day of Wrath" was nothing but confusion.

A few years later I thought the description of the "multitude" in Revelation 7 fit the church. I became a closet "mid-triber" then a "post-triber" still somewhat confused.

Much later in the 90's decade I saw the book "The Pre-Wrath Rapture.." Since I had been taught the 70th week of Daniel was the wrath of God I thought it might get me back on track with the "brotherhood." When I realized what the "Day of the Lord" was, suddenly all prophecy cleared up and I came out of the closet realizing the coming of Christ is not imminent but preceded by signs yet unfulfilled.
canuck4him canuck4him from Canada wrote on May 27, 2007:
Found your site thru an on-line search...very interesting!
Tim A Tim A from New Zealand wrote on May 1, 2007:
Very interesting. This has fleshed out my own assumptions of this period in our near future. Still have some question regarding the 24 elders and when they are worshiping with a new song Rev 4:4 and 5:8-10, will keep working on this. Thanks for all your hard work.
Regardless of where you stand on this issue, I think the church is acting like one of the foolish virgins at present and needs a wakeup call, for sure.
Cindy Jagels Cindy Jagels from United States wrote on March 22, 2007:
I am very glad I came across your site. I have been a Pre-wrath rapture advocate for most of the years of my Christian walk as everything seemed to be pointing to that instead of the commonly taught Pre-trib position that I found to be the view of many. I too have read "The Sign" and "The Pre-wrath Rapture" by Marvin Rosenthal and found they put things together very well; likewise, this web site. Thanks so much for this effort...there is a wealth of info here to contemplate, study, and pray about!