You have some very good points and there are many who agree with you. In essence, I too, agree with you. I see Jesus’ return as one coming – is it just that He will be here awhile and several events will take place at and during His coming.

I have three reasons for believing that the rapture will initiate the Lord’s coming. First, as you have stated, I believe the scripture is clear that God’s people will not endure His wrath. In the book of Revelation it uses the word “escape” – so I believe it is more than keeping us safe while the wrath is going on. Second, the passages that compare the return of Jesus to Noah and Lot (like Luke 17:26-30) indicate that on a single day God’s people were rescued and then the judgment fell. In Luke it says, “It will be just like this on the day the Son of Man is revealed.” Third, the whole concept of Jesus’ return is tied to the prophecy of the Day of the Lord. There is a sign of that day when the sun will be darkened and the moon turned to blood (red) and the stars fall from the sky. In the chronology of Revelation this happens at the sixth seal and THEN the judgments of the trumpets begin.

I will be the first to admit that I could be wrong, this is just the time frame that I see the scriptures teach.

Jesus does come back and rapture His saints and He does deal with them in Heaven, but at the same time He deals with the Jewish remnant here on earth. It is no problem for Him to travel back and forth. Furthermore, He is God and as God shares the attributes of God including omnipresence (the ability to be everywhere at the same time). As far as the Jews are concerned, they are not raptured.

The Jewish remnant will enter the millennial kingdom in their earthly bodies and will have charge along with a multitude of Gentiles that survive the 70th Week to re-populate the earth In the rapture, Jewish people who have accepted Jesus as their true Messiah will also be raptured and therefore, will not be a part of the remnant, but most Jews have rejected Jesus and will not accept Him until the end of the 70th Week.

The Post-Tribulation view, as the name implies, sees the rapture happening at the end of the seven years of Daniel’s 70th Week. In contrast, the Prewrath view sees the rapture happening at the opening of the sixth seal at an indefinite time during the second half of Daniel’s 70th Week. After the rapture the wrath of God is poured upon the world that has rejected Christ.

Although the name Pre-Wrath view is only a couple of decades old, the principles of the pre-wrath view are the teachings of the Bible. The understanding of prophecy as taught in the pre-wrath view was also taught by many of the early church fathers.

“The faq_ position is simply an enhancement of the historical position held by the early church fathers.” -Robert Van Kampen

“The Prewrath position teaches that the true church will be raptured when the great tribulation by Antichrist, inspired by Satan, is cut short by God’s day-of-the-Lord wrath, which will occur between the sixth and seventh seals of Revelation, sometime during the second half of the seventieth week. The persecution associated with the great tribulation of Antichrist is viewed as the wrath of Satan, whereas the events that follow, beginning with the seventh seal, are considered the wrath of God. There is another term that is sometimes expressed, “historical premillennialism,” which refers back to the teaching of the early church fathers before 325 A.D. They believed that the church would face the persecution of Antichrist and Christ would then reign for 1000 years upon the earth. With the exception of two, Origen and Clement of Alexandria, who were allegorists, they all taught this view.” -Gary Vaterlaus, Sola Scriptura

Here are some quotes from some of the early church fathers:

Justin, Dialog with Trypho, CX

“[T]wo advents of Christ have been announced: the one, in which He is set forth as suffering, inglorious, dishonored, and crucified; but the other, in which He shall come from heaven with glory, when the man of apostasy, who speaks strange things against the Most High, shall venture to do unlawful deeds on the earth against us the Christians,…”

Constitutions of the Holy Apostles, Book VII, Sec. II, XXXII

“For in the last days false prophets shall be multiplied, and such as corrupt the word; and the sheep shall be changed into wolves, and love into hatred: for through the abounding of iniquity the love of many shall wax cold. For men shall hate, and persecute, and betray one another. And then shall appear the deceiver of the world, the enemy of the truth, the prince of lies, whom the Lord Jesus ‘shall destroy with the spirit of His mouth, who takes away the wicked with His lips; and many shall be offended at Him. But they that endure to the end, the same shall be saved. And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven;’ and afterwards shall be the voice of a trumpet by the archangel; and in that interval shall be the revival of those that were asleep. And then shall the Lord come, and all His saints with Him, with a great concussion above the clouds, with the angels of His power, in the throne of His kingdom, to condemn the devil, the deceiver of the world, and to render to every one according to his deeds. ‘Then shall the wicked go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous shall go into life eternal,’ to inherit those things ‘which eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, nor have entered into the heart of man, such things as God hath prepared for them that love Him;’ and they shall rejoice in the kingdom of God, which is in Christ Jesus.”

The scripture about this is:

Matt 24:29 (NIV) Immediately after the distress of those days ´the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from the sky, and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.’ 30 At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and all the nations of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky, with power and great glory.

The “immediately” is not after the Abomination of Desolation, but after the “distress of those days.” Jesus said no man can know the day or the hour, but we can know that it is near even at the door.

Mid-tribulation would see the rapture happening at the time of the Abomination of Desolation. Prewrath sees the rapture as happening at an indefinite time somewhere – in my opinion early – in the second half of the 70th Week.

There are four references cited in your question: 1) The Abomination of Desolation, 2) The protection of the woman, 3) The Beast rising, and 4) The two witnesses. All four of these are said to last 3 1/2 years.

There is no question according to Daniel 9:27 – the Abomination of Desolation (AOD) happens at the middle of Daniel’s 70th Week. So, there are remaining 3 1/2 years after the AOD. According to 2 Thessalonians chapter 2 – which we know describes the AOD, this is when the Antichrist will set himself up as God to be worshipped. This would explain the persecution of the Woman. Furthermore, the persecution of the woman and the rising of the beast follow the casting down of Satan “knowing he only has a short time.” Therefore, it would stand to reason that the 3 1/2 years attached to these two events would have to be the latter half of the 70th Week.

The two witnesses also endure persecution which, like the woman and the beast, would necessitate that it happen after the Antichrist has come to full power. All of these events are recounted at the interlude after the 7th trumpet has sounded which would also seem to indicate that they would not happen in the first half of the 70th week.

The Pre-Wrath View, put in the simplest terms, is nothing more than the flow of events described in the “Olivet Discourse” in Matthew 24. If you follow the events in chronological order, reading as literally as possible, you discover the Pre-Wrath view of the end of time.

The word “rapture” is not in the Bible. For more detail on this, see PREWRATH > The Rapture. But the concept of the rapture is in many places. The most definitive description of the rapture is found in 1 Thess 4:15-18.

1 Thess 4:15 (NIV) According to the Lord’s own word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left till the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. 18 Therefore encourage each other with these words (emphasis added).

But there are many more passages which describe the rapture.

Matt 24:29 (NIV) “Immediately after the distress of those days “´the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from the sky, and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.’ 30 “At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and all the nations of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky, with power and great glory. 31 And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.

Also…

Matt 24:36 (NIV) “No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. 37 As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 38 For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; 39 and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 40 Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left. 41 Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left.

In the 1 Thessalonians 4 passage the Apostle Paul describes the rapture and then in chapter 5 he says…

1 Thess 5:1 (NIV) Now, brothers, about times and dates we do not need to write to you, 2 for you know very well that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night.

Also, in 2 Thessalonians 2…

2 Thess 2:1 (NIV) Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, we ask you, brothers, 2 not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by some prophecy, report or letter supposed to have come from us, saying that the day of the Lord has already come.

Here the Apostle Paul describes the event of Jesus coming and our being gathered to Him as “The Day of the Lord!”

Paul, himself, called the rapture the “day of the Lord.” When you realize this, then anywhere the scripture uses the term “day of the Lord,” it is speaking of the rapture and the rapture is all through the scripture. For instance in the book of Acts…

Acts 2:20 (NIV) The sun will be turned to darkness and the moon to blood before the coming of the great and glorious day of the Lord. 21 And everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.’

This passage begins to take on new meaning, as will many others when the connection is made between the rapture and the Day of the Lord.

There are several reasons for placing the seals where I have. First, no where are the seals called the “wrath” of God. It is not until the sixth seal is opened that the scriptures say the wrath of God has come. Then, the seventh seal is opened and the wrath of God in the form of the trumpets judgments begin.

Furthermore, the seals coincide with the beginning of birth pains described in Matthew 24 which do occur before the Abomination of Desolation. If you look at “PREWRATH > Timing of the Rapture,” about half-way down the page I compare the seals to Matthew 24.

The first seal is the appearance of Antichrist and it corresponds to…

Mat 24:4-5 (NIV) Jesus answered: “Watch out that no one deceives you. {5} For many will come in my name, claiming, ‘I am the Christ, ‘ and will deceive many.

The second seal is the seal of wars and it does correspond to Matthew before the Abomination of Desolation takes place.

Mat 24:6-7 (NIV) You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come. {7} Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom…

The third seal is the seal of famine. Mat 24:7 NIV) … There will be famines and earthquakes in various places.

The fourth and fifth seals are death and martyrs which correspond to the approximate time of the mid-point of the 70th week when the Antichrist will be revealed.

Matt 24:8-10 (NIV) All these are the beginning of birth pains. {9} “Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. {10} At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other…

Mat 24:21-22 (NIV) For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now–and never to be equaled again. {22} If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened.

The sixth seal is the sign of the Day of the Lord – the moon turns to blood (red), the sun is darkened and the stars fall from the sky (no longer shine).

Matt 24:29-31 (NIV) Immediately after the distress of those days ‘the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from the sky, and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.’ {30} At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and all the nations of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky, with power and great glory. {31} And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other. (emphasis added)

Is this not the rapture?

Matt 24:37-38 (NIV) As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. {38} For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; {39}and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. {40} Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left. (emphasis added)

Now, this leads me to the last point. One of the reasons that the seals 1 through 3 happen before the mid-point is because you must line up the prophecy according to the sign of the Day of the Lord. This sign is all through scripture and it is what makes all of the prophecies make sense.

Joel 2:10 (NIV) Before them the earth shakes, the sky trembles, the sun and moon are darkened, and the stars no longer shine.

Joel 2:31 (NIV) The sun will be turned to darkness and the moon to blood before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD.

Joel 3:14-15 (NIV) Multitudes, multitudes in the valley of decision! For the day of the LORD is near in the valley of decision. {15} The sun and moon will be darkened, and the stars no longer shine.

Amos 8:9 (NIV) “In that day,” declares the Sovereign LORD, “I will make the sun go down at noon and darken the earth in broad daylight.

Rev 6:12-14 (NIV) I watched as he opened the sixth seal. There was a great earthquake. The sun turned black like sackcloth made of goat hair, the whole moon turned blood red, {13} and the stars in the sky fell to earth, as late figs drop from a fig tree when shaken by a strong wind. {14} The sky receded like a scroll, rolling up, and every mountain and island was removed from its place. {15} Then the kings of the earth, the princes, the generals, the rich, the mighty, and every slave and every free man hid in caves and among the rocks of the mountains. {16} They called to the mountains and the rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb! {17} For the great day of their wrath has come, and who can stand?”

Matt 24:29-31 (NIV) Immediately after the distress of those days ‘the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from the sky, and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.’ {30} At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and all the nations of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky, with power and great glory. {31} And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.

Mark 13:24-27 (NIV) But in those days, following that distress, ‘the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; {25} the stars will fall from the sky, and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.’ {26} At that time men will see the Son of Man coming in clouds with great power and glory. {27} And he will send his angels and gather his elect from the four winds, from the ends of the earth to the ends of the heavens.

Luke 21:25-28 (NIV) There will be signs in the sun, moon and stars. On the earth, nations will be in anguish and perplexity at the roaring and tossing of the sea. {26} Men will faint from terror, apprehensive of what is coming on the world, for the heavenly bodies will be shaken. {27} At that time they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. {28} When these things begin to take place, stand up and lift up your heads, because your redemption is drawing near.

Acts 2:20-21 (NIV) The sun will be turned to darkness and the moon to blood before the coming of the great and glorious day of the Lord. {21} And everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.

I go into more detail on this at “PREWRATH > The Day of the Lord.”

Now I do agree that when the Antichrist comes on the scene he will bring peace and the world will view him as the savior. But, even in the midst of this there will be wars and rumors of wars and famine and persecution. The Antichrist will probably blame this on those nations which resist him.

The whole picture in Revelation is that the scroll that is sealed with 7 seals IS the scroll of the Day of the Lord. When the seventh seal is broken the Day of the Lord’s wrath begins.

The 6th seal “powers of heaven will be shaken” is referring to the sign of the Day of the Lord. This is when the sun will be darkened, the moon turned to blood and the stars fall from the sky. This is described in Joel 2:10,31 and 3:15; in Matthew 24:29; Mark 13:24; Acts 2:20; and Revelation 6:12. This is the sign that the Day of the Lord is beginning. The Day of the Lord will be initiated by the rapture of the saints. This will happen in a single day as described in Luke 17:26-30. Therefore, it may be peaceful – two women at the mill or men in the field – at then the sign of the Day of the Lord appears and the saints are gathered immediately to meet Jesus. Once the rapture takes place the period of the Day of the Lord’s wrath will begin when the trumpets of God’s wrath will be sounded as described in the book of Revelation.

I get email quite frequently asking if I believe the EU treaty could signify that we are in the 70th week (Tribulation period) already. Others ask regarding other political events or because of specific conditions or events in the Islamic world.

I make a strong effort to stay away from trying to tie current events with biblical prophecy. Some have tried to use Hitler, Stalin, the Pope and others to say we were in the 70th week or that the Antichrist had arrived – and all have been wrong!

Sure, the Islamic world has provided an environment that the rise to power of the Antichrist could happen from there, but these conditions have existed before. We need to be careful at assigning or proclaiming prophecy to be fulfilled in any current event. The Bible is clear that if we speak and it does not come to pass, then we are false prophets. I, for one, do not want to be counted as a false prophet. Therefore, I choose to speak where the Bible speaks and not to speculate about world events.

We are told in Matthew 24:9 (NIV) “Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me.” Later in verse 22 we are told, “If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened.” There are some that would argue that this persecution is only talking about the Jews, but there is nothing in scripture that states this. Furthermore, the book of Revelation reveals at the 5th seal those who have been martyred for the sake of Christ. The good news is that Jesus also states in Matthew 24:29, “Immediately after the distress of those days “´the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from the sky, and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.'” This is the sign of the Day of the Lord and as we have seen in this study, the Day of the Lord will be initiated by the rapture of the saints.

The Bible states in Daniel that the Antichrist will make a covenant of peace for 7 years with Israel and “the many.”

Daniel 9:27 (NIV) He will confirm a covenant with many for one ´seven.’ In the middle of the ´seven’ he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And on a wing [of the temple] he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him.”

In the middle of the seven years the Antichrist wil set up what scripture calls the “Abomination of Desolation.”

2 Thessalonians 2 describes this in more detail…

2 Thess 2:3 (NIV) Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction. 4 He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God’s temple, proclaiming himself to be God.

It goes on to say…

2 Thess 2:9 (NIV) The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with the work of Satan displayed in all kinds of counterfeit miracles, signs and wonders, 10 and in every sort of evil that deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. 11 For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie 12 and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.

Now, as we look for the coming of the 70th Week, we know a covenant will be signed. However, there is evidence that this may not be common knowledge. In Matthew 24 Jesus told His disciples…

Matt 24:9 (NIV) “Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. 10 At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, 11 and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. 2 Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, 13 but he who stands firm to the end will be saved. 4 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come. 5 “So when you see standing in the holy place ´the abomination that causes desolation,’ spoken of through the prophet Daniel–let the reader understand– 16 then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.

Jesus tells His disciples that “then” there will be persecution and many will turn away from the faith and betray each other. As He is describing this He then says to His disciples “So, when you see…” Therefore, He is telling them what to look for to know that these things are coming to pass. But, He does not say, “So, when you see the covenant signed…” What He does tell them to look for IS the Abomination of Desolation. I believe this is evidence that we could be in the 70th Week of Daniel and not realize it until the Abomination of Desolation takes place.

You are confusing two separate issues. The “peace and safety” relates to the covenant that Antichrist makes with Israel at the beginning of the 70th Week. The OT prophesies about this covenant…

Isaiah 28:15 (NIV) You boast, “We have entered into a covenant with death, with the grave we have made an agreement. When an overwhelming scourge sweeps by, it cannot touch us, for we have made a lie our refuge and falsehood our hiding place.”

But it is answered…

Isaiah 28:18 (NIV) Your covenant with death will be annulled; your agreement with the grave will not stand. When the overwhelming scourge sweeps by, you will be beaten down by it.

First Thessalonians is where you find the “peace and safety” quote.

1 Thess 5:1 (NIV) Now, brothers, about times and dates we do not need to write to you, 2 for you know very well that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. 3 While people are saying, “Peace and safety,” destruction will come on them suddenly, as labor pains on a pregnant woman, and they will not escape.

This is a general reference to the time when Israel makes this covenant with Antichrist and feel “safe,” but we know that he will turn on them with a vengeance. The “woman” or Israel will be protected and the church will suffer persecution, but “immediately after the distress of those days” (Matt 24:29) the rapture will take place for the born-again Christians, and those that are left behind (being the lost including the Jews) will suffer through the Day of the Lord’s wrath.

The passage in Revelation 7 describes this multitude as “from every nation, tribe, people, and language” and as a multitude that “no one could count.” The pre-trib argument has been that the 144,000 Jewish people that are sealed become evangelists and the greatest revival in history takes place during the tribulation period. But they also contend that the rapture happens first and the Holy Spirit is removed along with the church. So, the greatest revival in history takes place without the Holy Spirit being present – this makes no sense. Furthermore, there is no scriptural evidence for these Jewish people even being believers at the time they are sealed, much less that they are evangelists. There is also no evidence for this revival taking place. On the contrary, the Bible says…

2 Thess 2:9 (NIV) The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with the work of Satan displayed in all kinds of counterfeit miracles, signs and wonders, 10 and in every sort of evil that deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. 11 For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie 12 and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.

The weight of scriptural evidence supports the PreWrath view. This multitude appears after the 6th seal which is the sign of the Day of the Lord, and before the 7th seal which is the beginning of the 7 trumpets and God’s wrath. The size of this multitude can only be explained by one group – the raptured saints dead and alive who have put their faith in Christ.

No. Because the beginning of the 70th Week is not the beginning of the tribulation as popular belief suggests, The tribulation begins after the mid-point at the Abomination of Desolation when the Antichrist demands the worship of the world. Matthew 24 makes this clear…

Matt 24:9 (NIV) “Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. 10 At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, 11 and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. 12 Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, 13 but he who stands firm to the end will be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come. 15 “So when you see standing in the holy place ´the abomination that causes desolation,’ spoken of through the prophet Daniel–let the reader understand–

He starts out with “then” which points to a specific point in time. Then in verse 15 he says “so,” which tells us how to know when that time is. And, he specifically points to the Abomination of Desolation which IS prophesied in Daniel to be in the middle of the 70th Week.

I believe the answer to your question is “yes.” However, we must be careful about drawing conclusions. Yes, in Rev. 7 the 144,000 are sealed with the seal of God on their foreheads, and yes, in Rev. 14 we are told that these 144,000 have the Lamb’s name and the Father’s name on their foreheads, but we are not specifically told that these names ARE the seal. That is an assumption – even maybe a good one. In Revelation 9:4 we are told that the locusts can harm only those people who did not have the seal of God on their foreheads. Therefore, I agree with your end conclusion that those sealed, being the 144,000 are the only ones who cannot be harmed.

Now it must be said that at this point the rapture has taken place, so the only people left are the Jewish remnant and those who had rejected Christ at least up until the rapture. Could those who were saved after the rapture also become sealed? The scripture doesn’t say. What we do know is that God loves His people and one of most important reasons for the 70th Week of Daniel is for the world to have one last chance to accept Christ. The scripture says…

Joel 2:11 (NIV) The LORD thunders at the head of his army; his forces are beyond number, and mighty are those who obey his command. The day of the LORD is great; it is dreadful. Who can endure it? 12 ´Even now,´ declares the LORD, ´return to me with all your heart, with fasting and weeping and mourning.´ 13 Rend your heart and not your garments. Return to the LORD your God, for he is gracious and compassionate, slow to anger and abounding in love, and he relents from sending calamity.
Joel 2:11 (NIV) The LORD thunders at the head of his army; his forces are beyond number, and mighty are those who obey his command. The day of the LORD is great; it is dreadful. Who can endure it? 12 ´Even now,´ declares the LORD, ´return to me with all your heart, with fasting and weeping and mourning.´ 13 Rend your heart and not your garments. Return to the LORD your God, for he is gracious and compassionate, slow to anger and abounding in love, and he relents from sending calamity.

The answer is tied very closely to a proper understanding of the scriptural doctrine of the “Day of the Lord” (DOL). The scripture reveals that the DOL was a common teaching in Jewish faith. This is evidenced by 1Thess 5:1 (NIV) “Now, brothers, about times and dates we do not need to write to you, 2 for you know very well that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night.” Even in the Old Testament it is evident that the DOL was commonly understood. Amos 5:18 (NIV) “Woe to you who long for the day of the LORD! Why do you long for the day of the LORD? That day will be darkness, not light.

Now in the book of Revelation, there is a graphic picture of a scroll sealed with seven seals. Some have tried to interpret this that each seal opens a part of the scroll. But the scripture plainly tells us that this is a single scroll that is sealed along the edge with seven seals and cannot be opened until all seven seals are broken. Rev 5:2 (NIV) “And I saw a mighty angel proclaiming in a loud voice, ‘Who is worthy to break the seals and open the scroll?‘” It is “seals,” plural, and “scroll,” singular. This is also consistent with common ancient practice. Note that when the sixth seal is broken the proclamation is made… Rev 6:16 (NIV) “They called to the mountains and the rocks, ‘Fall on us and hide us from the face of him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb! 17 For the great day of their wrath has come, and who can stand?'”

It becomes apparent that this scroll IS the scroll of the Day of the Lord. God’s wrath is not mentioned until this scroll is opened. On the contrary, As the seals are each broken, events are depicted as a reporter reporting the news. None of the events are attributed as coming from God. This also coincides with Matt 24:6 (NIV) “You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come… 8 All these are the beginning of birth pains.” Therefore, the seals are not the wrath of God, but a list of events that will lead to the Day of the Lord.

The 144,000 are found twice in the book of Revelation – first at the 6th seal and again at the end of the 70th week standing on Mt. Zion. They are distinctly Jewish and they are sealed immediately preceding the rapture. I believe that Jewish believers in Messiah Yeshua will also be raptured. Therefore, these are Jewish non-believers who will be protected for the latter 3 1/2 years and have the opportunity to accept Jesus as Messiah as the Lord Jesus meets with them in the wilderness of Edom.

To answer your first question, I have pasted below an excerpt from “PREWRATH > Timing of the Rapture” which explains what the scripture DOES say about “when” the rapture will occur because the rapture signals the end of suffering for God’s people:

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Jesus told us in Mark 13:32 that no one knows the day and the hour. But He did say…

Matt 24:32 (NIV) Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its twigs get tender and its leaves come out, you know that summer is near. {33} Even so, when you see all these things, you know that it is near, right at the door. (emphasis added)

We can know His coming is “right at the door.” So, we cannot say exactly when during the final half of the 70th Week that the rapture will occur – but according to Matthew 24 it will be sometime during the second 3½ years. Jesus did give us two exciting clues as to when it would happen:

Two Clues…

Matt 24:22 (NIV) “…for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened.”

Matt 24:29 (NIV) “Immediately after the distress of those days…”

We can say that the tribulation of the second half of the 70th Week will be cut short for the elect (saints), and that the rapture will take place immediately after the distress of those days. It helps us to realize why the New Testament writers would say, “even so, come quickly, Lord Jesus!”

There is one other important note when placing the timing of the rapture. It will happen before the 1st trumpet sounds. Now the seventh trumpet sounds at the end of the 70th Week. The fifth trumpet that sounds brings 5 months of torment to those on the earth. So, the trumpet judgments would have to take a minimum of 6 months to happen at the least. Therefore, presumably the rapture would have to happen at least 6 months prior to the end of the 70th Week for all the other trumpet judgments to fit in.

In the last 3 1/2 years of the 70th week, the rapture could happen in as quickly as 6 months or less, or as much as 2½ to 3 years. The fact that Jesus uses the word “immediately” causes this writer to believe that the rapture will happen very early in the 2nd half of the 70th Week.

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Now, may I encourage you as far as your second question is concerned. Yes, I do believe that persecution is coming for the church. And I certainly don’t look forward to it, but, being aware of what the scripture teaches is a major step in being prepared for what is to come. First, I believe the scriptures imply that there is a possibility that we may not even realize we are in the 70th week until the mid-point. Jesus said in Matt. 24 “When you see standing in the holy place the Abomination of Desolation spoken of by the prophet Daniel…” Apparently, the sign that terrible things are to come is the “Abomination of Desolation” which happens halfway through the 7 years of the 70th week. Prior to the mid-point the world will think the Antichrist is the savior of the world. So, I don’t believe Christians will have to suffer for the entire 7 years – persecution will begin after the mid-point. Also, Jesus promises us that “immediately” after the distress of those days that He will return in the rapture to rescue His saints. Now although this doesn’t mean we may not have to suffer, I believe it does mean that Jesus loves us and cares for us and He WILL take care of us. The scripture is clear that some will be martyred for the cause of Christ. But we all need to understand that when these things begin to happen and we see with our own eyes the promises of God being fulfilled, I believe we will understand what the first disciples said when they rejoiced that they were counted worthy to suffer for the name of Jesus.

Now let me also say that Jesus encouraged us in Luke 21:13, Matt 10:18 and Mark 13:11 not to be afraid about how to behave when we are persecuted. For instance:

Matt 10:18 (NIV) On my account you will be brought before governors and kings as witnesses to them and to the Gentiles. 19 But when they arrest you, do not worry about what to say or how to say it. At that time you will be given what to say, 20 for it will not be you speaking, but the Spirit of your Father speaking through you.

So if we are put in the place of having to defend ourselves, I believe we will be given a special PRESENCE and POWER of the Holy Spirit. Also, Jesus promised the church at Philadelphia…

Revelation 3:10 (NIV) Since you have kept my command to endure patiently, I will also keep you from the hour of trial that is going to come upon the whole world to test those who live on the earth.

So, there also seems to be the promise of some sort of supernatural protection for God’s people. We cannot dismiss the martyrs, so some will suffer, but I believe God’s grace is sufficient.

One more point that is much more speculative – the book of Revelation describes the rescue of the woman who symbolizes Israel. Rev 12:14 (NIV) The woman was given the two wings of a great eagle, so that she might fly to the place prepared for her in the desert, where she would be taken care of for a time, times and half a time, out of the serpent’s reach.

Now suppose that this eagle symbolizes the United States. We have been a friend to Israel when seemingly all others have abandoned her. This would seem to indicate that the USA could escape the brunt of persecution, or at least be a thorn in the flesh of the Antichrist. This is purely speculative, but it is a possibility.

As God’s people we cannot focus on the Antichrist and dread the cleansing of the bride, rather we need to focus on Jesus the Author and Perfecter of our faith – we need to trust in His love for us.

I hope this has been an encouragement to you not to despair on what is to come, but to rejoice in that soon we will meet Jesus face to face!

I discuss on my FAQ question under the Judgement category on Matthew 25:31 how many people will survive the 70th week of Daniel and the wrath of God who are not “saved” and yet have not taken the mark of the beast. These, along with the Jewish remnant will enter the millennial kingdom in their earthly bodies and populate the earth during the 1,000 years. Revelation says…

Rev 20:4 (NIV) I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony for Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or his image and had not received his mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy are those who have part in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years.

Here there are thrones and people upon them who have been given authority to judge. Based on what the Apostle Paul said…

1 Cor 6:2 (NIV) Do you not know that the saints will judge the world? And if you are to judge the world, are you not competent to judge trivial cases? 3 Do you not know that we will judge angels? How much more the things of this life!

I believe these are those who have been through the Bema judgment of Christ. Those that are ruled over, are those who will populate the earth.

Yes, I believe people will still be saved – for more on this go to my FAQ entry on salvation. According to my notes there, there will be multitudes who enter the millennial kingdom in their mortal earthly bodies who had never been saved. In the following passage in Isaiah we are told of the presence of infants and children…

Isaiah 11:6 (NIV) The wolf will live with the lamb, the leopard will lie down with the goat, the calf and the lion and the yearling together; and a little child will lead them. 7 The cow will feed with the bear, their young will lie down together, and the lion will eat straw like the ox. 8 The infant will play near the hole of the cobra, and the young child put his hand into the viper’s nest. 9 They will neither harm nor destroy on all my holy mountain, for the earth will be full of the knowledge of the LORD as the waters cover the sea.

Death is also mentioned…

Isaiah 65:20 (NIV) “Never again will there be in it an infant who lives but a few days, or an old man who does not live out his years; he who dies at a hundred will be thought a mere youth; he who fails to reach a hundred will be considered accursed.

According to Joel even after the Day of the Lord begins, God’s purpose is to redeem people to love Him.

Joel 2:1 (NIV) Blow the trumpet in Zion; sound the alarm on my holy hill. Let all who live in the land tremble, for the day of the LORD is coming. It is close at hand– {2} a day of darkness and gloom, a day of clouds and blackness. Like dawn spreading across the mountains a large and mighty army comes, such as never was of old nor ever will be in ages to come.

Joel 2:10 (NIV) Before them the earth shakes, the sky trembles, the sun and moon are darkened, and the stars no longer shine. {11} The LORD thunders at the head of his army; his forces are beyond number, and mighty are those who obey his command. The day of the LORD is great; it is dreadful. Who can endure it? {12} ´Even now,´ declares the LORD, ´return to me with all your heart, with fasting and weeping and mourning.´ (emphasis added)

I believe God’s heart is “not wanting anyone to perish but everyone to come to repentance.” (2 Pet. 3:9) Furthermore, even in the judgments it is stated that God’s desire is for mankind to repent…

Rev 9:20 (NIV) The rest of mankind that were not killed by these plagues still did not repent of the work of their hands; they did not stop worshiping demons, and idols of gold, silver, bronze, stone and wood–idols that cannot see or hear or walk. {21} Nor did they repent of their murders, their magic arts, their sexual immorality or their thefts.

Joel 2:32 and Acts 2:21 both state that on the Day of the Lord “everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.” It is important to note that although the Day of the Lord begins on a single day when the church is raptured, that day begins the Day of the Lord’s wrath which will continue. So, the Day of the Lord is the period beginning with the rapture and continuing thereafter. So, I believe the “everyone who calls” applies throughout the judgments.

Isaiah prophesied…

Isaiah 14:1 (NIV) The LORD will have compassion on Jacob; once again he will choose Israel and will settle them in their own land. Aliens will join them and unite with the house of Jacob. (emphasis added)

Zechariah 2:10-12 (NIV) “Shout and be glad, O Daughter of Zion. For I am coming, and I will live among you,” declares the LORD. {11} “Many nations will be joined with the LORD in that day and will become my people. I will live among you and you will know that the LORD Almighty has sent me to you. (emphasis added)

Therefore, I DO believe that there will be many saved after the Day of the Lord commences. However, we are also told in 2 Thessalonians…

2 Thess 2:9 (NIV) The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with the work of Satan displayed in all kinds of counterfeit miracles, signs and wonders, {10} and in every sort of evil that deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. {11} For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie {12} and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness. (emphasis added)

So, although I believe many will be saved, I also believe it will be very difficult for a lost person to believe the truth. I wouldn’t want to take the chance!

To answer this question I need to address it in two parts: First, the terminology of “the elect” vs. “the church,” and then who are “the elect.”

The Elect vs. The Church

Matt 24:21 (NIV) For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now–and never to be equaled again. 22 If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened. 23 At that time if anyone says to you, ´Look, here is the Christ!’ or, ´There he is!’ do not believe it. 24 For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and miracles to deceive even the elect–if that were possible. (emphasis added)

Matt 24:30 (NIV) “At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and all the nations of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky, with power and great glory. 31 And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other. (emphasis added)

Mark 13:20 (NIV) If the Lord had not cut short those days, no one would survive. But for the sake of the elect, whom he has chosen, he has shortened them. 21 At that time if anyone says to you, ´Look, here is the Christ!’ or, ´Look, there he is!’ do not believe it. 22 For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform signs and miracles to deceive the elect–if that were possible. (emphasis added)

Mark 13:26 (NIV) “At that time men will see the Son of Man coming in clouds with great power and glory. 27 And he will send his angels and gather his elect from the four winds, from the ends of the earth to the ends of the heavens. (emphasis added)

Romans 11:5 (NIV) So too, at the present time there is a remnant chosen by grace. 6 And if by grace, then it is no longer by works; if it were, grace would no longer be grace. 7 What then? What Israel sought so earnestly it did not obtain, but the elect did. The others were hardened (emphasis added)

2 Tim 2:8 (NIV) Remember Jesus Christ, raised from the dead, descended from David. This is my gospel, 9 for which I am suffering even to the point of being chained like a criminal. But God’s word is not chained. 10 Therefore I endure everything for the sake of the elect, that they too may obtain the salvation that is in Christ Jesus, with eternal glory. (emphasis added)

Titus 1:1 (NIV) Paul, a servant of God and an apostle of Jesus Christ for the faith of God’s elect and the knowledge of the truth that leads to godliness— (emphasis added)

1 Pet 1:1 (NIV) Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, To God’s elect, strangers in the world, scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia and Bithynia, 2 who have been chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through the sanctifying work of the Spirit, for obedience to Jesus Christ and sprinkling by his blood: Grace and peace be yours in abundance. (emphasis added)

I believe the word “elect” is used because it is unambiguous. There is no question who is being referred to in these verses – these are the true born-again believers and the bride of Christ. Now the question arises why use the word “elect” and not “the church.”

Some have used this distinction to try to argue that the reason the church is not mentioned in these passages is because during the 70th week of Daniel when these events are happening the church will have already been raptured. But this is only assumption and has absolutely no biblical support. Furthermore, this is using a word sense to derive a teaching from the scripture that is not there in the normal simple reading of the passage.

So, why use the term “elect” rather than “the church.” There are several passages of scripture which teach that not all that call themselves “the church” ARE the church. For instance, Jesus said…

Matt 7:22 (NIV) MANY will say to me on that day, ´Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ´I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’ (emphasis added)

In this passage, Jesus points out that there will be MANY people who will claim even supernatural works to prove that they are the “elect.” They are apparently in the church, but they do not have a real relationship with Jesus Christ.

The seven churches of Revelation draw a picture of the church that is increasingly compromising with the world. To Ephesus Jesus says that they had left their first love. To Pergamum He says that they hold to the teaching of Balaam who enticed the Israelites to sin by eating food offered to idols and by committing sexual immorality. Thyatira had a woman in the church the scripture calls Jezebel who is misleading the church by her worldly teaching. Jesus calls Sardis dead. He warns Philadelphia to “hold on to what you have so that no one will take your crown.” Laodicea is a church that exhibits total compromise with the world – they are rich and increased with goods not realizing that in Jesus’ eyes they are poor, blind and naked. I have heard it said that there are some churches where Jesus could return and they would never realize it.

Therefore the distinction in these passages referring to the elect is that not all of the church is the elect. Therefore there are certain events and promises that are made specifically to the elect.

Now, who are the elect?

The elect are the true bride of Christ. This has nothing to do with race, religion, or anything else. The whole point to the final judgment of God is to bring the Jews to recognize that Jesus IS the Messiah. Prophecy proclaims that…

Zech 12:10 (NIV) “And I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of grace and supplication. They will look on me, the one they have pierced, and they will mourn for him as one mourns for an only child, and grieve bitterly for him as one grieves for a firstborn son.”

The elect are ALL true believers in Jesus Christ – Jew, Gentile, slave or free. Where there can be some question about whether all of the church will be in heaven, there can be no doubt that all of the elect will be there!

We must recognize that there is a danger to trying to fit scriptural prophecy into tradition or custom. This is the mistake the Pharisees made when Jesus criticized them for substituting the commands of God for the traditions of men. (Mark 7:8) So, it is somewhat of a stretch to say that because Jewish tradition required the presentation of the bride – that this would be necessary of the bride of Christ.

However, there are several references that indicate that when the millennial reign of Christ begins (with His bride) that there will be others living on the earth that survived the 70th week of Daniel. For instance, Isaiah speaks of nations learning of God’s ways when His kingdom is finally established…

Isaiah 2:2 (NIV) In the last days the mountain of the LORD’s temple will be established as chief among the mountains; it will be raised above the hills, and all nations will stream to it. 3 Many peoples will come and say, “Come, let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob. He will teach us his ways, so that we may walk in his paths.” The law will go out from Zion, the word of the LORD from Jerusalem. 4 He will judge between the nations and will settle disputes for many peoples. They will beat their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning hooks. Nation will not take up sword against nation, nor will they train for war anymore  (emphasis added).

There are other passages that indicate that there will be interaction between Israel or God’s people and the other nations…

Isaiah 60:11 (NIV) Your gates will always stand open, they will never be shut, day or night, so that men may bring you the wealth of the nations– their kings led in triumphal procession.

Isaiah 66:19 (NIV) “I will set a sign among them, and I will send some of those who survive to the nations–to Tarshish, to the Libyans and Lydians (famous as archers), to Tubal and Greece, and to the distant islands that have not heard of my fame or seen my glory. They will proclaim my glory among the nations. 20 And they will bring all your brothers, from all the nations, to my holy mountain in Jerusalem as an offering to the LORD–on horses, in chariots and wagons, and on mules and camels,” says the LORD. “They will bring them, as the Israelites bring their grain offerings, to the temple of the LORD in ceremonially clean vessels. 21 And I will select some of them also to be priests and Levites,” says the LORD. 22 “As the new heavens and the new earth that I make will endure before me,” declares the LORD, “so will your name and descendants endure. 23 From one New Moon to another and from one Sabbath to another, all mankind will come and bow down before me,” says the LORD. 24 “And they will go out and look upon the dead bodies of those who rebelled against me; their worm will not die, nor will their fire be quenched, and they will be loathsome to all mankind.” (emphasis added)

Micah 4:2 (NIV) Many nations will come and say, “Come, let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob. He will teach us his ways, so that we may walk in his paths.” The law will go out from Zion, the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.

Zephaniah 2:11 (NIV) The LORD will be awesome to them when he destroys all the gods of the land. The nations on every shore will worship him, every one in its own land.

Zechariah 2:10 (NIV) “Shout and be glad, O Daughter of Zion. For I am coming, and I will live among you,” declares the LORD. 11 “Many nations will be joined with the LORD in that day and will become my people. I will live among you and you will know that the LORD Almighty has sent me to you.

Zechariah 14:16 (NIV) Then the survivors from all the nations that have attacked Jerusalem will go up year after year to worship the King, the LORD Almighty, and to celebrate the Feast of Tabernacles.

Therefore, it seems there will be many witnesses or guests to whom the bride of Christ may be presented. Now, whether guests are necessary is not certain, but the indication is that there will be plenty of people left who are not the bride that could be those in attendance. Several times in prophecies God would speak through His prophets and make a statement like “so that all nations will know that I am the Lord.” This could also be a fulfillment of the end of time when God will once again rule this earth personally – and this presentation of the bride would fit well into that prophetic ideal.

I have heard many attempts to link prophecy with the meaning or schedule of the feasts. And although there may be some connection, you cannot make judgments about prophecy regarding the feasts without proper scriptural evidence. The different phases of harvest do not have a connection scripturally with the judgment and harvest of souls in the last day – at least as far as I can discern. Although it sounds good, Matthew 24, Revelation, 1 Thessalonians 4:13ff, and 2 Thessalonians 2, and all the other passages that detail the Day of the Lord only point to one harvest. The only slight exception is Revelation 20:4ff where the raptured saints are included with the martyrs as the first resurrection.

The scripture you are referring to is:

Rev 20:4 (NIV) I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony for Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or his image and had not received his mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy are those who have part in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years.

Rev 20:4 (NIV) I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony for Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or his image and had not received his mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy are those who have part in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years.

There are three groups of people in this passage. 1) Those who were seated on thrones and given authority to judge, 2) Those who were martyred for their testimony for Christ, and 3) the “rest of the dead” who are subject to the second death. Those seated on the thrones and given authority are the raptured saints. The martyrs are brought back to life and these two groups are called the first resurrection. The rapture happens sometime before this but the martyrs are not brought back to life until this point. The point of verse 6 is that those raptured and those martyred will no longer be subject to the possibility of going to hell.

The scripture you are asking about is as follows:

Rev 5:1 (NIV) Then I saw in the right hand of him who sat on the throne a scroll with writing on both sides and sealed with seven seals. 2 And I saw a mighty angel proclaiming in a loud voice, “Who is worthy to break the seals and open the scroll?” 3 But no one in heaven or on earth or under the earth could open the scroll or even look inside it. 4 I wept and wept because no one was found who was worthy to open the scroll or look inside. 5 Then one of the elders said to me, “Do not weep! See, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, has triumphed. He is able to open the scroll and its seven seals.” 6 Then I saw a Lamb, looking as if it had been slain, standing in the center of the throne, encircled by the four living creatures and the elders. He had seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven spirits of God sent out into all the earth. 7 He came and took the scroll from the right hand of him who sat on the throne. 8 And when he had taken it, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb. Each one had a harp and they were holding golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints. 9 And they sang a new song: “You are worthy to take the scroll and to open its seals, because you were slain, and with your blood you purchased men for God from every tribe and language and people and nation.

What is described here is a scroll that is sealed with seven seals. This scroll cannot be opened until all seven seals are broken. This passage in Rev 6 points out that the scroll being opened signifies the Day of the Lord’s wrath.

Rev 6:12 (NIV) I watched as he opened the sixth seal. There was a great earthquake. The sun turned black like sackcloth made of goat hair, the whole moon turned blood red, 13 and the stars in the sky fell to earth, as late figs drop from a fig tree when shaken by a strong wind. 14 The sky receded like a scroll, rolling up, and every mountain and island was removed from its place. 15 Then the kings of the earth, the princes, the generals, the rich, the mighty, and every slave and every free man hid in caves and among the rocks of the mountains. 16 They called to the mountains and the rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb! 17 For the great day of their wrath has come, and who can stand?”

The 6th seal is opened and it is declared that the Day of the Lord’s wrath has come and then the 7th seal begins the trumpet judgments where God’s wrath begins to be poured upon the earth. Therefore, the 1st through 6th seals are not God’s wrath because that doesn’t begin until the 7th seal is opened which opens the scroll. The scroll is the scroll of the Day of the Lord’s wrath.

The lamb is the only one worthy to open the seals because the seals symbolize the coming judgment at the opening of the scroll. Seals 1 through 6 are depicting the events happening on earth that will lead to the Day of the Lord’s wrath. They correspond to the events described in Matthew 24. According to Matthew 24 these events will include persecution by Antichrist. Picture it this way, the Antichrist comes on the scene and half-way through the 70th week demands that the world worship him. The Jews and Christians refuse and persecution begins. As these things are happening Jesus begins opening the seals on the scroll of the Day of the Lord’s wrath until God finally says, “That’s enough!” Then He rescues His people through the rapture and begins pouring out His wrath upon the world.

So, to answer your question, although the Lamb does open the seals He is not causing the events to happen on the earth. Nowhere does the Bible describe the events surrounding the 1st through 6th seals as being caused by God or as wrath of God. However, the trumpets and bowls are described continually as God’s wrath.

The scripture you are referring to is:

Rev 6:15 (NIV) Then the kings of the earth, the princes, the generals, the rich, the mighty, and every slave and every free man hid in caves and among the rocks of the mountains. 16 They called to the mountains and the rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb! 17 For the great day of their wrath has come, and who can stand?”

The fact that He is called “the Lamb” in this passage does not mean that these lost people will not realize who He is. In fact, we are told…

Luke 17:23 (NIV) Men will tell you, ´There he is!’ or ´Here he is!’ Do not go running off after them. 24 For the Son of Man in his day will be like the lightning, which flashes and lights up the sky from one end to the other.

I believe every eye will see him and they will know exactly who He is – and they will know HE is returning. But since when does seeing make you believe? Sure, I think many will believe from that point on, but think of all the times in the scripture that people saw – but nothing really changed. For example, Elijah on Mt Carmel and the fire that fell from Heaven, Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego in the fiery furnace, the miracles of Jesus, etc. Many did believe when they saw, but many more did not. In Rev 9:20 we are told…

Rev 9:20 (NIV) The rest of mankind that were not killed by these plagues still did not repent of the work of their hands; they did not stop worshiping demons, and idols of gold, silver, bronze, stone and wood–idols that cannot see or hear or walk. 21 Nor did they repent of their murders, their magic arts, their sexual immorality or their thefts.

I believe the world will know that the judgment of God has come. But, remember also the passage in 2 Thess 2…

2 Thess 2:9 (NIV) The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with the work of Satan displayed in all kinds of counterfeit miracles, signs and wonders, 10 and in every sort of evil that deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. 11 For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie 12 and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.

This very question is what makes the Day of the Lord so fitting. Mankind has rejected God for so long, and finally, they will reject Him openly and obviously even in the face of His impending judgment.

The passage you are asking about is:

Matt 13:24 (NIV) Jesus told them another parable: “The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field. 25 But while everyone was sleeping, his enemy came and sowed weeds among the wheat, and went away. 26 When the wheat sprouted and formed heads, then the weeds also appeared. 27 “The owner’s servants came to him and said, ´Sir, didn’t you sow good seed in your field? Where then did the weeds come from?’ 28 “´An enemy did this,’ he replied. “The servants asked him, ´Do you want us to go and pull them up?’ 29 “´No,’ he answered, ´because while you are pulling the weeds, you may root up the wheat with them. 30 Let both grow together until the harvest. At that time I will tell the harvesters: First collect the weeds and tie them in bundles to be burned; then gather the wheat and bring it into my barn.'”

Now, my interpretation of this passage has to do with several elements.

I believe during the 70th week of Daniel the church will increasingly compromise with the world so that most of the church will be “lost.”

Secondly, at the end of the 70th week after the rapture has already happened, there will be many who have not taken the Mark of the Beast and yet are not “saved,” but they will enter the millennial reign of Christ. For more on this go to my FAQ question under the Salvation category regarding “wedding guests.”

Third, the scripture records the judgment of the sheep and goats in Matthew 25:31. Here the distinction will be as they had done to the “least of these my brethren.”

My conclusion is that this parable is a picture of how the tares and wheat abide together and supposedly it is hard to tell them apart. But at the “harvest” they will be separated. I am not sure that this is a specific picture of any of these individual judgments, but rather a general picture that whether through the rapture, or the judgment before the millennium the wheat will be gathered in to barns and the tares burned. It is interesting here that those raptured and entering into the millennium are not at their final destination – the new heaven and new earth and that may add some significance to the wheat being gathered into barns. And, the result of those left at the rapture and not entering the millennium would be hell – although not the final lake of fire – “to be burned.”

The scripture you are referring to is the passage of the judgment of the sheep and the goats:

Matt 25:31 (NIV) “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his throne in heavenly glory. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left. 34 “Then the King will say to those on his right, ´Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’ 37 “Then the righteous will answer him, ´Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’ 40 “The King will reply, ´I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.’ 41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ´Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’ 44 “They also will answer, ´Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’ 45 “He will reply, ´I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’ 46 “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.” (emphasis added)

We are told of three judgments that will take place in the scriptures. The first is the Bema judgment. This is the judgment of the righteous ones who have been raptured. I describe the Bema judgment in detail at “PREWRATH > The 45 Days.” Another judgment is the Great White Throne judgment and it is found in Revelation 20:11ff. The people judged at this time are described in verse 12…

Rev 20:12 (NIV) And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. (emphasis added)

Here those who are being judged are described as “the dead.” I believe this is not necessarily a description of a physical state as it is a spiritual state. This is the judgment of those who have rejected Jesus Christ.

Then we come to the sheep and goat judgment. This judgment is unique in some specific ways. First, this judgment takes place after Jesus comes in glory with His angels. So, this judgment takes place following the battle of Armageddon. The battle of Armageddon and the return of Jesus WITH His angels are also discussed at “PREWRATH > The 45 Days.”

It says “All the nations will be gathered before him…” So, this judgment deals with those who are of the nations at this point in time. The word for nations is “ethnos” which always refers to non-Jewish people and almost always to pagans. But the mere fact that these people remain requires that they had not taken the mark of the beast. The scripture is clear about those who receive the mark…

Rev 14:9 (NIV) A third angel followed them and said in a loud voice: “If anyone worships the beast and his image and receives his mark on the forehead or on the hand, 10 he, too, will drink of the wine of God’s fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath. He will be tormented with burning sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb. 11 And the smoke of their torment rises for ever and ever. There is no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and his image, or for anyone who receives the mark of his name.” (emphasis added)

Furthermore, the book of life is not mentioned, nor faith, or belief. The only criteria for this judgment is how these people treated “one of the least of these brothers of mine.”

Therefore, I believe that this judgment is for those who are left on the earth, that have not professed Christ – and they are judged whether to enter the millennial kingdom based on how they treated the Jewish people who have been the object of persecution by the Antichrist.

We have a precedent in the book of Obadiah which is a book of judgment against Edom dealing with how they treated the Jewish people during this time of trouble.

So, the bottom-line answer to this question is yes, this judgment is a judgment to determine who (of those left on the earth) will enter the millennial kingdom.

Robert Van Kampen addresses this question in his book The Sign. Once the 7th trumpet sounds, the rule of Antichrist will be ended. Yes he will still be on the scene, but he will be at the mercy of the bowl judgments without being able to do anything about them. The only other action that is mentioned after the 7th trumpet is the gathering together of the nations at Armageddon. But this is an event that God has decreed not Antichrist – it is part of the judgment poured out at the 6th bowl.

This is a difficult question. There are those who believe that this refers to the literal city of Babylon, some think it could refer to Jerusalem. It could very likely refer to something that we know nothing of yet – a future place of prominence that has yet to be. It is described in such detail that I do believe that it is a literal place. At this point in time, the scripture is just not clear and no one can be dogmatic about it.

Rev 17:12 states that the three kings will be given authority to rule for one hour. In the Greek it is literally “one hour” (mian horan). Now no one can be completely dogmatic when it comes to prophecy because much of it is figurative. You have to use the context to determine whether this is a literal hour or a figurative hour. Sometimes the scripture gives us no further evidence. Here because of the number “one” I would interpret this as a literal hour.

Now, in Rev. 3:10 the church is told that Jesus will keep them from “the hour” of trial (ek taes horas) “out of the hour.” This is an indefinite measure of time. It is the same as when a preacher might say “the hour of judgment is upon us.” This reference I interpret not as a literal hour, but as the beginning of an indefinite period of time. There is no single scripture that gives us the answer to the length of these “hours” except the context of the passage. I don’t think you will find any references in books because this is an accepted grammatical understanding as I have stated. I am sorry that I don’t have a more exact answer for you, but there are some questions where the scripture is just not that exact.

Yes, 1 Cor 15:51-52 does say that we will all be changed in a moment – but it does not say that we will all be changed in the SAME moment. I believe this passage is explaining what will happen to each believer when we are raptured, or resurrected. We WILL be changed in a moment of time. However, according to 1 Thess 4:16-17, the dead in Christ WILL rise first. So, the dead in Christ will be changed in a moment and then the living will be changed in a moment also. It is also possible that the dead in Christ will be resurrected and then the remaining believers raptured and as we meet together we will all be changed in the same moment. However it happens, I do not see a contradiction here.

The passage in question is…

Rev 7:13 (NIV) Then one of the elders asked me, “These in white robes–who are they, and where did they come from?” 14 I answered, “Sir, you know.” And he said, “These are they who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

My personal opinion is that the resurrected saints are not mentioned here because the “first resurrection” is not yet complete. I believe these are the raptured saints who will be given authority to rule when the Day of the Lord is concluded and first resurrection is complete…

Rev 20:4 (NIV) I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony for Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or his image and had not received his mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection.

You are right – and that is why there are those who hold to a view called “Historical Preterism.” They believe that all end-time prophecy was fulfilled around AD 70. The problem is that the questions the disciples asked were lumped together and the stones being removed was only one question. The main question was when Jesus would return. This cannot be answered by Historical Preterism – unless you and I missed Christ’s return!

So, the choices are that Jesus was separately answering two separate questions, or that Jesus was answering the disciples main question of what will be the sign of your coming – the stones being thrown down was relatively unimportant. This second choice is what I believe.

I have had this come up a few times. The last trumpet is spoken of in 1 Cor. 15:52…

1 Cor 15:51 (NIV) Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed– 52 in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.

The preterists and post-tribulationists have used this scripture to identify this “last trumpet” with the seventh trumpet of Revelation – which is the last trumpet judgment of God’s wrath. Therefore they show that the rapture happens at the end of the 70th week of Daniel.

I have a couple problems with this. First, it is taking a single two-word phrase and building a doctrine around it – without any other evidence. And, there is only assumption to connect this trumpet with the 7th trumpet of Revelation. So, we must first look at what we DO know about this last trumpet.

This last trumpet does seem to coincide with the trumpet in 1st Thessalonians…

1 Thess 4:16 (NIV) For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.

and with Matthew…

Matt 24:31 (NIV) And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.

So, it seems safe to say that this last trumpet IS the trumpet call when the rapture will take place. But, the 7th trumpet of Revelation has no correlation to the dead begin raised. It does say that the time for judging the dead has come and for rewarding God’s servants. Therefore, the only connection between these two is that it is called the “last” trumpet.

The nature of the two trumpets are completely different. One is the trumpet call signifying the salvation of God’s people at the rapture. The other is a trumpet blast of judgment initiating terrible wrath upon those who have rejected God. Because of this difference, it is my belief that the “last trumpet” of 1 Cor 15:52 is “last” only in the sense that it is the last trumpet for God’s people. God’s people will not be on the earth for the 7th trumpet of Revelation because the scripture declares…

1 Thess 1:10 (NIV) and to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead–Jesus, who rescues us from the coming wrath.

1 Thess 5:9 (NIV) For God did not appoint us to suffer wrath but to receive salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ.

Therefore, this will be the “last trump” for God’s people because they will not be here for the 7th trumpet of Revelation. We need to be careful about letting a single scripture that is unclear in it’s exact interpretation decide the interpretation of many other passages that are clear in timing.

I understand perfectly how you can identify the “last trump” with the 7th trumpet of Revelation. After all, the last trumpet recorded in the Bible is that 7th trumpet. At the time of writing of 1 Corinthians the book of Revelation had not been written yet and therefore the revelation of the trumpets was not known. Now I will be the first to tell you that God is no respecter of time. He has connected prophecies before that were written at different times. The possibility here is that either this trumpet IS the 7th trumpet of Revelation or it is not. The timing of the writing just adds credence that Paul may have been writing about the rapture trumpet, the last trumpet for God’s people, without concern for the judgment trumpets of Revelation. If it is not the 7th trumpet of Revelation it is still the “last trump” that God’s people will experience so this does not contradict what Paul wrote.

My biggest problem with the connection of these trumpets is what it does to the timeline of prophecy. After the 6th seal is broken, the sign of the Day of the Lord appears and the proclamation is made Rev 6:16 (NIV) They called to the mountains and the rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb! 17 For the great day of their wrath has come, and who can stand?” (emphasis added)

When the 7th seal is opened the trumpet judgments begin. Therefore, I consider them clearly God’s wrath and so do most prophecy scholars in all camps. Therefore, if the rapture happens at the 7th trumpet, God’s people are left to endure His wrath. This is clearly excepted in verses like:

Romans 5:9 (NIV) Since we have now been justified by his blood, how much more shall we be saved from God’s wrath through him! (emphasis added)

1 Thess 1:10 (NIV) and to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead–Jesus, who rescues us from the coming wrath. (emphasis added)

1 Thess 5:9 (NIV) For God did not appoint us to suffer wrath but to receive salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ. (emphasis added)

Rev 3:10 (NIV) Since you have kept my command to endure patiently, I will also keep you from the hour of trial that is going to come upon the whole world to test those who live on the earth. (emphasis added)

Luke 21:36 NIV) Be always on the watch, and pray that you may be able to escape all that is about to happen, and that you may be able to stand before the Son of Man. (emphasis added)

Some try to separate the trumpets from the bowls and see only the bowls as God’s wrath. These judgments are almost the same judgments except the trumpets affect 1/3 of the earth while the bowls affect everything.

First, I believe this is an example of a near/far prophetic fulfillment in scripture which is common in prophecy. For a detailed explanation of near/far prophetic fulfillment see “PREWRATH > Daniel’s 70th Week.” This scripture was fulfilled in part in the days of Pentecost as God’s Spirit was poured upon the disciples, but it also foreshadows a coming fulfillment at the Day of the Lord. He begins the passage in Acts by saying in the last days He will pour out His Spirit on all people. Then He says:

Acts 2:18 (NIV) Even on my servants, both men and women, I will pour out my Spirit in those days, and they will prophesy…

Now it is not a complete explanation, but it is interesting that He speaks of “last days” and “those days.” Then He goes on to say that…

Acts 2:19 (NIV) I will show wonders in the heaven above and signs on the earth below, blood and fire and billows of smoke…

Now this did not happen on the day of Pentecost – or else if it did – it didn’t seem important enough to record!

Therefore, one must conclude that there is still a further fulfillment waiting for this prophecy. Now even more important, if Pentecost WERE the fulfillment of the Day of the Lord, then all of the other prophecies surrounding the Day of the Lord in the Old Testament, New Testament, and the book of Revelation had to also be fulfilled. And simply stated, that just did not happen. Men’s faces did not melt away:

Isaiah 13:6 (NIV) Wail, for the day of the LORD is near; it will come like destruction from the Almighty. 7 Because of this, all hands will go limp, every man’s heart will melt. 8 Terror will seize them, pain and anguish will grip them; they will writhe like a woman in labor. They will look aghast at each other, their faces aflame.

Also, we are told very clearly that the Antichrist will be revealed before the Day of the Lord…

2 Thess 2:2 (NIV) not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by some prophecy, report or letter supposed to have come from us, saying that the day of the Lord has already come. 3 Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction.

Some might argue that some historical figure like Judas fulfilled this prophecy, but it goes on the say about this “man of lawlessness” that…

2 Thess 2:4 (NIV) He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God’s temple, proclaiming himself to be God.

Therefore, it is impossible to state that the prophecy quoted in Acts 2:20 which is actually from Joel 2:28-32, was completely fulfilled at Pentecost.

However, Peter himself quotes this passage as prophecy as to what was happening at Pentecost when some even thought the disciples were drunk. The important point is that Peter does not identify this event as a fulfillment of the prophecy of Joel – he simply states that what they are seeing happen (which is being mistaken for drunkenness) is the same thing that Joel spoke about. So, his reference to Joel does not require a complete fulfillment because that will come later.

I do not believe there is any way to connect Matt 24:14 with the two witnesses of Revelation. This is merely pure speculation. I think it is more appropriate to assume that the preaching of the gospel to the whole world will be the spread of the gospel message throughout the world due to the efforts of God’s people up until the time of the end. Some have interpreted this scripture that we may hasten His coming by getting the gospel message out to the entire world.

The Apostle Paul wrote of the mystery of God on several occasions, and I think he makes clear what is described here in Rev. 10:7. For example…

Romans 11:25 (NIV) I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers, so that you may not be conceited: Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in. 26 And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written: “The deliverer will come from Zion; he will turn godlessness away from Jacob. 27 And this is my covenant with them when I take away their sins.”

Romans 16:25 (NIV) Now to him who is able to establish you by my gospel and the proclamation of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery hidden for long ages past, 26 but now revealed and made known through the prophetic writings by the command of the eternal God, so that all nations might believe and obey him–

Eph 1:9 (NIV) And he made known to us the mystery of his will according to his good pleasure, which he purposed in Christ, 10 to be put into effect when the times will have reached their fulfillment–to bring all things in heaven and on earth together under one head, even Christ.

Eph 3:6 (NIV) This mystery is that through the gospel the Gentiles are heirs together with Israel, members together of one body, and sharers together in the promise in Christ Jesus.

Therefore, the mystery is that Gentiles are included in redemption, but yet Israel is not forgotten. All Israel will be saved which means that all things (Jew and Gentile) will be brought together under one head, even Christ. The 7th trumpet signifies that Israel has finally accepted their true Messiah…

Zech 12:10 (NIV) And I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of grace and supplication. They will look on me, the one they have pierced, and they will mourn for him as one mourns for an only child, and grieve bitterly for him as one grieves for a firstborn son.

I personally believe that in context with this scripture that this is speaking of the restored Jewish temple. However, one must recognize, as Van kampen pointed out, that this restored temple does not necessarily have to be a premanent structure. Circumstances could provide for a temple like the tabernacle in the wilderness of the Children of Israel. In any case, as the end-times scenario begins to unfold the temple could quickly become a reality.